Killing Pits

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Minorthreatt
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Killing Pits

Post by Minorthreatt » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm

Not sure if this is the right section to discuss the subject in, but it made the most sense to me so hopefully it is good - if we do discover some answers, they should certainly be added into the wiki for others.

Killing Pits - this is what the wiki currently states:
"Killing Pits are deadly pits containing iron spikes, and are placed in the grounds of the castle in order to injure any attacking troops which walk over them. Killing pits may be placed anywhere within the white line (build zone) for your castle, and require iron from the stockpile to build. The base cost of a single Killing Pit tile is 100 iron.
To build killing pits in a village castle, Defences Level 2 must be researched.
To build killing pits in a capital's castle, a Sergeant-at-Arms Office must be placed and upgraded.
Killing pits are one (1) tile each in size."

Now that's all good and fine, but it doesn't give the needed details to allow me to decide whether they are worthwhile or not. Questions:

1. How much damage do they do? Is it a set amount, or can each pit kill a single troops as it walks over it (.... would make sense... most people don't come back from a sharpened tree trunk through their abdomen).

2. When they do damage, is it damage over time as a unit is forced to walk over them, or is it a one time damage. Is it a one time damage per unit, or are they used up one at a time as a single unit springs them, and then the pit does not damage the next unit to walk over it?

3. Are they scouted when the castle is scouted? Are they invisable again after being repaired and set again in the same spot, or are they invisable again each time after repair?

4. Does pitch pot damage and killing pit damage stack?

5. Killing pits are holes in the ground with wooden stakes in them - it's unlikley that any iron would be used in one because that material is rare and uneccessary in comparison to just cutting some trees up (I'm talking real world application, and quite frankly the in-game graphic that features wood stakes in a dug out hole, not iron like the wiki suggests). So why do they require 100 iron to make, and then repair each time if they use no iron? I feel the cost should be in wood - either that or the cost of making swords and armour should be reverted to wood instead.... just kidding ;) but you get my drift. That would be an easy update! It would be fun for FF to setup a Poll in a thread for something like this and get the community resposne. If 90% people said yes it should be changed, seems fair enough to me. Thoughts =) ??

And I didn't mean to get carried away - I really just mostly want to know how much damage they are causing, so I can see if they are worth it.
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DavidSpy
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by DavidSpy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:51 pm

Killing Pits cause minimal damage to troops standing on them, they last for several seconds before the effect is gone. Generally, Killing Pits are seen as a waste of castle space and you should only use them along sally paths leading from your keep.
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Minorthreatt
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Minorthreatt » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:03 pm

This does not satiate my need for knowledge!!! FEED ME.

(especially the iron issue! It's such a good case - no? The Horned Rat demands realism within reasonability! Or NO more storiesssszzz!)
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DavidSpy
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by DavidSpy » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:19 pm

Why couldn't the killing pits be using iron stakes? :P
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Minorthreatt
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Minorthreatt » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:50 pm

DavidSpy wrote:Why couldn't the killing pits be using iron stakes? :P
The facts are already stated above my good man. The logic and basis on actual history that the facts present ring so true that it is almost ungodly, or atleast a real head-nodder:

"5. Killing pits are holes in the ground with wooden stakes in them - it's unlikley that any iron would be used in one because that material is rare and uneccessary in comparison to just cutting some trees up (I'm talking real world application, and quite frankly the in-game graphic that features wood stakes in a dug out hole, not iron like the wiki suggests). So why do they require 100 iron to make, and then repair each time if they use no iron? I feel the cost should be in wood - either that or the cost of making swords and armour should be reverted to wood instead.... just kidding but you get my drift. That would be an easy update! It would be fun for FF to setup a Poll in a thread for something like this and get the community resposne. If 90% people said yes it should be changed, seems fair enough to me. Thoughts =) ??"

Every situation I have ever seen or read about the use of covered killing pits (a truly horrific weapon in any degree, on the same level as land mines, if not worse due to being more fatal rather then just a limb loss), from ancient times all the way up to their use inWW2 and even the Vietnam war, it is wooden stakes made of thick branches or sharpened whole tree trunks of not too thick a size. Tons of them would be needed to be effective, and so a lot of material was needed and used. So of course trees are more available everywhere, and don't need to be smithed into a shape like iron or any metal would be. Iron is rare, and hard to work with in comparison to wood. It's like saying we should make all floors out of flattened cast iron - we don't - they're still made out of wood 99% of the time, lol. And that is just because it makes sense - I'm a big fan of sense, I can't help it.

Anyhow I know it's a small, small part of a large game - but saying that, it should be an easy fix ;) . And it's entertaining to discuss, as always :mrgreen:
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Sooth Awful
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Sooth Awful » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:35 pm

I only use them - like David already said - in my sally forth path.
It's just a waste to use them elsewhere.
They inflict very little damage during a few seconds before the effect wears off.
However, they can be quite handy as extra defence.
The reason their damage is negligible is because otherwise people would only build killing pits in their castle.
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Lt.Columbo
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Lt.Columbo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:41 pm

as sooth and david stated..i also use them for the sally ports.other than that, waste of space. however i cannot answer all the other questions you asked since ive got no idea about ;)


one question though...has your name anything to do with the HC band minor thread?
if so, good to meet like minded people ;)
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Escadin
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Escadin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:43 pm

I still want to know how much damage exactly like in % of an archer's HP or whatever. Since they last a few seconds, does that mean the damage will be applied multiple times if an attacks doesn't move? Give people the knowledge to decide on their own what is worthwile and what is not, or to create strategies which give alledgedly worthless stuff a point. ^^

@OP looks like we got to figure it all out by ourselves.

@Sooth Awful That is a poor justification. People would build their castles 100% out of moat but they can't due to a tile limit.

Guardian001
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Guardian001 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:02 pm

Escadin wrote: @Sooth Awful That is a poor justification. People would build their castles 100% out of moat but they can't due to a tile limit.
100% moats?? Are you crazy? where would the guardhouses and archers be placed if all were moats??
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Escadin
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Re: Killing Pits

Post by Escadin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:32 pm

well 100% after deductions. At least I would build my parishes mostly out of moat. The thing is that moat is as equally resistant as great towers, while it is immune to cats which means I want to build as many moat tiles as possible.

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