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 SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke 
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:18 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
Lord Alacrity wrote:
I came across this thread while searching for feedback about the Era system in general and was disappointed to see the pervasive view that we are committed to making players miserable. We are very open to changing certain elements of the Era system, but we need consensus from a broad base of players as to what specific changes are needed. While we can't ban a group of players you don't like or give you a million crowns, we are actively looking for constructive feedback.

From what I have read on the forums, we will most likely be making changes to:

[*]Increase the honor cost and the rank at which ransack research unlocks
[*]Decrease the rank required to raze

These were the most salient points and seemed to have the broadest support. We are still very eager to hear constructive arguments for any changes that players think are needed to the Era system and while I can't reply to every post I do read them.


Lowering the Flag cost of high end parish buildings is important. In the current political environment (new servers are dominated by outside the game power blocks) it is unlikely that a parish will acquire the needed flags to purchase a Balista factory or Church. Also the flag cost of barracks means that during the first age player armies will exceed parish defense, and that leads to whichever power block can threaten war can flag raid with impunity.

The lowering of players and factions per house has not reduced the size of power blocks. Rather than have a massive 800 player house, the power blocks now lock up multiple 60 player houses. When USA-4 launched there was a 5-house power block, a 4-house power block and a pair of 3 house power blocks. This occupied 15 of 20 houses and left players outside the power blocks without a house and made them a target.

Not opening all counties did not increase combat, it actually decreased combat. The off server power blocks were able to "claim" most of the sheriff seats in the game. If all the zones were open it would actually make it more difficult for the power blocks to control all the sheriff seats.

Ransacking was annoying, but only in the early game. Since Raze was not available, and since Ransack was, that was the tactic that could be deployed. Bullies will be bullies, and mart effective players will utilize whatever tools are available. You cannot legislate morality. These power blocks are doing what is in their best interest, and modifying the rule set will not eliminate their behavior, just change the techniques they use.

Most concerning for me is the perception that ERA rules are an "evolution" of the AGE rule set and that Firefly is never going back to AGE rules. I have been playing since the first age of UK-1 and have never seen Firefly admit that they made a mistake and roll back a rules change with the exception of Bronze prizes.

In my opinion, the way to dilute the power blocks is to open more worlds and close them very quickly. The power blocks are limited in the number of servers they can monitor 24/7/365. If you announce the opening a server and closing it after the end of the first glory round WITHOUT REWARDS will give the low end subset of your players an environment to play the game. I doubt that the power blocks will be willing to dedicate staffing resources to these servers if they end quickly with no rewards.

So, this brings me to my final point. Why do all servers have to have the same rule set? The maps are different, why can't the rule set be different? Some servers have AGE rules, some have ERA rules, why does the next server have to have the ERA rule set?

- Deke


Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:37 pm
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:57 am
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
the most things players don't like with ERA rules are
1 Houses / Factions to small so new players can't join be a part of a team and learn the game plus the carders rank up quick and take over multiple Houses and close things down so others can't expand and play against them
2 Rank of prince to raise is way to high as again only the carders can rank up quick and bully others and kill a world off before even it starts You can't defend against invasion by counter raising and new players can't get involved until they lean how to attack they just get kicked out of the game unless they just want to bow down to the bullies and play as farmers
3 The flag cost for castle defenses are way to high It only takes 2 breakers and a captain army to kill off a fully built castle un carded leaving everyone defenseless unless they are on 24 / 7 and card like * and even the AI attacks slow down the Low ranks / none carders from building up

So if you want new blood in this game it has to be player friendly not just a cash cow for FF or you will have no player base at all GAME DEAD

So whats better FF have games controlled by say 40 players carding or 4000 players enjoying the game staying, playing world after world and getting friends to join
no doubt your accountant will check out you balance sheets before you reply


Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:27 pm
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:30 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
Lowering the Flag cost of high end parish buildings is important. In the current political environment (new servers are dominated by outside the game power blocks) it is unlikely that a parish will acquire the needed flags to purchase a Balista factory or Church. Also the flag cost of barracks means that during the first age player armies will exceed parish defense, and that leads to whichever power block can threaten war can flag raid with impunity.


A fair point. Will look at lowering these costs.

DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
The lowering of players and factions per house has not reduced the size of power blocks. Rather than have a massive 800 player house, the power blocks now lock up multiple 60 player houses. When USA-4 launched there was a 5-house power block, a 4-house power block and a pair of 3 house power blocks. This occupied 15 of 20 houses and left players outside the power blocks without a house and made them a target.


I'm open to hearing suggestions about faction and house sizes.


DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
Not opening all counties did not increase combat, it actually decreased combat. The off server power blocks were able to "claim" most of the sheriff seats in the game. If all the zones were open it would actually make it more difficult for the power blocks to control all the sheriff seats.


I've never liked having counties closed at the beginning of a world. This was in fact an oversight on USA4 that was corrected.

DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
Ransacking was annoying, but only in the early game. Since Raze was not available, and since Ransack was, that was the tactic that could be deployed. Bullies will be bullies, and mart effective players will utilize whatever tools are available. You cannot legislate morality. These power blocks are doing what is in their best interest, and modifying the rule set will not eliminate their behavior, just change the techniques they use.


DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
Most concerning for me is the perception that ERA rules are an "evolution" of the AGE rule set and that Firefly is never going back to AGE rules.
We're happy to gather feedback about the Era system, after all, it was based on criticisms of the Age system. The Age system was built upon the overwhelming success of the first UK game worlds and certain elements of it are simply untenable for future development. So the Age system won't be present on any new worlds, but we'd be happy to hear what additional elements of the Age system the community thinks need to be retained.

DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:

I have been playing since the first age of UK-1 and have never seen Firefly admit that they made a mistake and roll back a rules change with the exception of Bronze prizes.

Really? I can recall quite a few, the first being the "rocks in my castle" incident. :) We are always happy to listen to feedback from players and act on that feedback as needed.

DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
In my opinion, the way to dilute the power blocks is to open more worlds and close them very quickly. The power blocks are limited in the number of servers they can monitor 24/7/365. If you announce the opening a server and closing it after the end of the first glory round WITHOUT REWARDS will give the low end subset of your players an environment to play the game. I doubt that the power blocks will be willing to dedicate staffing resources to these servers if they end quickly with no rewards.


I like certain aspects of this idea, but I'd have a hard time pitching it as is. The immediate questions that I would have to answer would be, "why would anyone want to play a world that ended after 90 days with no reward?" and "what about casual players?" I think what is more likely may be a non-competitive world type that incorporates some elements of Heretic world.

DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
So, this brings me to my final point. Why do all servers have to have the same rule set? The maps are different, why can't the rule set be different? Some servers have AGE rules, some have ERA rules, why does the next server have to have the ERA rule set?

- Deke

While we won't be returning to the old Age system, that does not mean we will only be releasing Era type worlds. The Era system was intended to replace the Age system as the "vanilla" or plain type of game world, but we have plans for all sorts of new maps and rule sets.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:04 am
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
Lord Alacrity wrote:
DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
In my opinion, the way to dilute the power blocks is to open more worlds and close them very quickly. The power blocks are limited in the number of servers they can monitor 24/7/365. If you announce the opening a server and closing it after the end of the first glory round WITHOUT REWARDS will give the low end subset of your players an environment to play the game. I doubt that the power blocks will be willing to dedicate staffing resources to these servers if they end quickly with no rewards.


I like certain aspects of this idea, but I'd have a hard time pitching it as is. The immediate questions that I would have to answer would be, "why would anyone want to play a world that ended after 90 days with no reward?" and "what about casual players?" I think what is more likely may be a non-competitive world type that incorporates some elements of Heretic world.


Casual players will join a server that ends after [limited amount of days] with no rewards, since they were not going to win any awards anyways. I think that a 6-month server is a good starting point.

And a server with no rewards will not attract the attention of the power block players, and should be more attractive to the casual player.

I do not know the labor costs of launching a new server, but if this server has a 6-month duration you should be able to see what type of player it attracts. And after 6-months you can reassess it's perceived value and make adjustments.

Deke


Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:28 pm
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:27 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
I started in SHK years ago on German 1 somewhat in the middle of the first round. Thought I had no help or advice I made my way up (learning by doing). And it was fun. Even after 2 weeks I bumped into a player who fits the description of the players mentioned in the posts here.
Now I try German #5, my 20th world (or even more) and I could observe the change in this game - from fun to frustration.
So I can only agree and confirm what´s written here.

And yes Lord Alacrity. I can understand that you can´t read every post on every board.
You say "... need consensus from a broad base of players as to what specific changes are needed"
And the question arises which players you´re referring to. For that we have to look at the players. Those WHO STAY and don´t give up after encountering the rulers of the maps (the players mentioned in the posts here) because the heavy carder takes it all? The heavy carders who seem to be pampered by the developers? But there´s a giant group of players you can´t be talking about - those who left, called "never again" and will rarely post on the boards (why should they after seeing what´s going on in the game?) Thought, with some more fair play and conditions in the game wouldn´t have left and also spend some real money on the game. Not as much as the remaining majority, but for a good game some would do so. And the revenue would be even better.
And the few that stay, don´t pay that much and post their ideas on the board? Seeing where the game is going to, none of their suggestion ever appear in any upgrades, what do you expect them to say? Sorry that you´re disappointed by their views.
"... changing certain elements
[*]Increase the honor cost and the rank at which ransack research unlocks .. "

??????????? Honor costs for what? "Ransack research at a higher level?" Doesn´t solve anything. The fortnight-crownprinces and others get even more advantages. And the smaller players and ranks get even more disadvantage through such a change. No matter if heavy carders or low payer. Hope you realize what this looks like again (pampering the already pampered?)? "... the most salient points and seemed to have the broadest support .. " Certainly. I do believe you in this sentence. The question is "of whom"? "which players"? Easily answered.
" ... [*]Decrease the rank required to raze ..."
Here I have to applaud. As long as you set it down to knight.
And here again some improvement I would like to see. The red zone of honor. Nobody should be able to open anything outside this zone. As long as this is possible the advanced/expert outrider cards are a bad joke because useless. This would stop them heavy carders from sweeping whole counties with their speedcards. And gives other players a chance to get of the ground.
I prefer a game where I have to work and fight to advance. Not a game where some buys his victory about others as they anyway can´t develop. What kind of victory is this supposed to be?


Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:28 am
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:16 am
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
Lord Alacrity wrote:

I like certain aspects of this idea, but I'd have a hard time pitching it as is. The immediate questions that I would have to answer would be, "why would anyone want to play a world that ended after 90 days with no reward?" and "what about casual players?" I think what is more likely may be a non-competitive world type that incorporates some elements of Heretic world.

While we won't be returning to the old Age system, that does not mean we will only be releasing Era type worlds. The Era system was intended to replace the Age system as the "vanilla" or plain type of game world, but we have plans for all sorts of new maps and rule sets.


I think the idea of having a non-competitive world with some of the card earning aspects of the Heretic world would be great.
Need not be quite as rewarding as Heretic but maybe better AI for the PVE aspect.
So we would get some rewards for scouting stashes and killing AI but the focus would be in joining together to defeat a much tougher AI. Only problemis I think most of the skills for writing good AI code died after online games started to dominate making it way too easy just to pit players against each other negating thedesire to write very good AI code.


Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 am
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Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:05 am
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
Lord Alacrity wrote:
DekeYoungAtlanta wrote:
In my opinion, the way to dilute the power blocks is to open more worlds and close them very quickly. The power blocks are limited in the number of servers they can monitor 24/7/365. If you announce the opening a server and closing it after the end of the first glory round WITHOUT REWARDS will give the low end subset of your players an environment to play the game. I doubt that the power blocks will be willing to dedicate staffing resources to these servers if they end quickly with no rewards.


I like certain aspects of this idea, but I'd have a hard time pitching it as is. The immediate questions that I would have to answer would be, "why would anyone want to play a world that ended after 90 days with no reward?" and "what about casual players?" I think what is more likely may be a non-competitive world type that incorporates some elements of Heretic world.


Casual players will join a server that ends after [limited amount of days] with no rewards, since they were not going to win any awards anyways. I think that a 6-month server is a good starting point.

And a server with no rewards will not attract the attention of the power block players, and should be more attractive to the casual player.

I do not know the labor costs of launching a new server, but if this server has a 6-month duration you should be able to see what type of player it attracts. And after 6-months you can reassess it's perceived value and make adjustments.

Deke


This right here is what it is about. For the casual player (casual meaning the players who don't spend hundreds of $$ on a game) then a world where they cash whales are limited or have no desire to join would be great! I notice players who started after me by days are now starting their second villages. It becomes frustrating that every game has become... pay more to win faster!

I would be very willing to keep up a ViP subscription to a game where everyone has the same chances.


Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:12 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
tried your new worlds and its new rules and there so so so boring ,so went back to g2 ,so anyway if like you say no more old style worlds are opening again , i will play g2 till end with the rest of the guys over there ,after that most of the g2 guys will stop playing this game ,as its not worth playing new worlds with era and putting more money into your pockets ,just to be bored

P.S you might take notice of what the old guard and other people are saying on here, once the old worlds finish .and everyone quits playing and spending

remember the old days what happen when you tried closing old worlds down , everyone said they would quit ,so you didnt , its about to happen again looks like, if things dont change for the good

sorry to say your getting no more money off me and my mates after g2

good luck all :cry:


Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:56 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:50 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
i bet now if you now open a new worid with the old style rules people would jump at it after playing under era rules,i know a good few who have quit and wont come back until a old style world opens

theres no reason you cant go back to the old style , i honestly think your going to kill off the game if you dont ,its so so boring under era,


Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:06 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:50 pm
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Post Re: SHK has lost it's entertainment value for Deke
if you want the old style worlds back instead of era say yes or no, lets see how many want to play under these era rules , it would be nice to see , just who are for and against


Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:41 pm
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